What are good martial arts for aging bodies?

Question

I'm not getting younger, and my weight will always be at least 200lbs. The martial art I'm studying is not kind to my joints. A particular problem is the flying kicks, one of which is featured in my next to top kata. While I've gotten better at the technique, my knee of the leg I land on complains very loudly the following day. I can't generate enough air time to land on both feet with a flying side kick.

I am interested in something with practical use outside the ring, but less harsh than my current art. My current style is a blend of Tae Kwan Do, Okinawan Go Ju Ryu, and Jujitsu. I do enjoy the Jujitsu, but finding a good school near me will be a challenge. I will talk with my sensei about making the art a bit more old man friendly--we both have physical challenges.

However, I am interested in broadening my horizons. What I'm looking for is:

• No flying techniques. I'm a big man and my joints can't take it
• Incorporating both grappling and stricking
• A focus on practical use in modern settings (this rules out sword arts and kyudo)

While I do have a fourth criteria, that would make the question too localized (i.e. something I can find near me). An addendum to the question would be how to evaluate a potential school.

---

Clarification about the knees:

• The problem is not bad joints, medically speaking.
• I can grapple just fine, the jujitsu aspect of my art is something I'm rather fond of.
• The problem is inflammation in the knee due to the stress of landing > 250lbs of mass on one leg.
• The inflammation goes away in a couple days, but the day following practice it is quite acute.

Also reminder about what I'm looking for:

• A focus on practical use in modern settings. Arts like iaido, kyudo, etc. that are primarily internal martial arts are not something I want to pursue at the moment.
• A de-emphasis on kicking, particularly flying or jumping techniques.

Answer 1

I'm going to beat the dead horse I keep near my keyboard. I'm skeptical of any school that requires the student to perform any action that the student feels has the potential of being long term harmful. That's not a problem with the school/style, that's a problem with the teacher.

As a counterexample, there are two of us who are currently preparing to test for nidan - both of us have knee problems that result in a close and ongoing relationship with the local Orthopod. Our nidan test requires 8 kneeling techniques; our instructor has adapted these to standing techniques that allow us to safely demonstrate the same skills & abilities.

Answer 2

Sang Kim in Martial Arts After 40 gives some good advice, the most general point being the suggestion that older martial artists should consider switching from power styles to styles that emphasize precision. He specifically suggests considering weapons arts, to reduce wear and tear that gets harder to recover from as one gets older, as well as their greater emphasis on precision. The rest of his advice is complex enough (and the details important enough) that I am not going to try to summarize it here.

Sang Kim also has an older book out Ultimate Fitness through Martial Arts, that, while not much for "ultimate" fitness, has a lot of interesting calisthenic type exercises people can do at any age to stay fit.

Answer 3

I am myself in the Big Boy / Old Man category, so I feel your pain! Especially since you've been training in quite hard / high-impact styles.

For the inflammation:

• ibuprofen (600mg, after training)
• ice packs or ice baths (lots of icing after training does wonders)
• frequent massage with arnica cream, dit da jow, or similar

For your next training opportunity, in no particular order:

• Yoga - I really enjoy this as a cross-training discipline. Excellent opportunity to improve flexibility, balance, breath. Many life advantages, though teaches no direct fighting skills.
• Wing Chun - All about controlling close-in fighting. Excellent defensive moves and combinations. No jumping. (If taught well.)
• Baguazhang - Wicked locking/rending/controlling applications. No jumping.
• T'ai chi ch'uan / Taijiquan - Especially if you can find a school that incorporates martial applications. Tai Chi made all of my other martial arts better.
• Jujitsu, Judo, or Aikido - Great fun. Based on liking jujitsu a good place to look, though may be counter-indicated if constant kneeling a problem for your knees
• MMA or boxing - Little to no jumping. Sparring emphasis improves fluidity and defensive reactions greatly. Good cross-over with real world self defense.

In choosing a new school, Mark C. Wallace is spot-on. If you have any injuries or propensities-to-injure that the school/instructors will not cheerfully and helpfully work around, head immediately towards the door.

Answer 4

A couple of options immediately spring to mind:

• Aikido
• the internal Chinese arts of Hsing - I and Ba Gua (Pa Kua)

Aikido is reasonably well known and needs no introduction. The internal arts though are relatively unknown to a lot of people. They are separate arts and they are quite different to your tradition karate/TKD/jiu jutsu, they do have some similarities with kung fu. However I think you will be amazed at how they complement and enhance your current styles.

This is a brief explanation of how the external and internal arts differ (excerpted from the first link below, which appears to have been first published in the magazine Inside Kung Fu):

Although body mechanics and movements of external martial arts may vary greatly from style to style, the major difference between these and the internal styles is that external styles, while generating power through the coordination of the body as a whole, lack unity of motion in the internal arts sense. For example, many external martial arts strike using the power of the waist and upper body from the base of a stable stance, the blow would be relaxed during delivery, then tightened for an instant at impact This type of strike is capable of generating a great amount of power, with the force being produced mainly by the waist and striking limb. This whipping of a limb and tensing at impact is referred to as "sectional power" and differs from the whole body power of internal martial arts. The sequence of training in external martial arts also differs in purpose. In the early stages of training, external martial arts place greater emphasis on increasing strength and endurance as the "raw material" to be refined later into precise technique. Whereas the goal of internal style stance training is to train the nervous system into the feeling of a unified body, the external martial artist stands to increase the strength, endurance and flexibility. As a consequence, external stance training is usually lower and wider than that of the internal. Although an oversimplification, it may be said that the internal martial artist stands to cultivate feeling, while the external martial artist stands to develop strength. External martial artists often spend considerable time conditioning specific areas of the body, either to withstand impact or to increase sectional power. An external martial artist may especially condition the head, fists, elbows, shoulders, fingers, or emphasize a specific movement, resulting in the development of a specialized weapon. This is another example of the development of sectional power in the external martial arts. Once the martial artist has a strong foundation, form and technique training begins. Once again, the forms and techniques emphasized in external styles are designed around the sectional power developed through basic training.

In summary the moves that comprise the internal arts are executed differently than the external styles; they don't just rely on a measure of speed or power to determine effectiveness. The internal arts also tend to concentrate on attacking the internal meridians of the opponent, whereas the external arts concentrate on external vital points and the external meridians. What this means for you is less hard impact on your body, and a whole bunch of new techniques that will both complement and enhance your existing techniques.

Some references I dug up quickly (I'll endeavour to find some better links in a few hours time):

• INTERNAL VS. EXTERNAL: What Sets Them Apart?
• Ba Gua / Pa Kua
• Hsing I

Answer 5

Filipino and Indonesian martial arts incorporate a lot of striking and grappling, are quite usable and versatile in the "real world", contain both empty-hand and weapon techniques (which are often the same), and in general, are kind to the joints.

The exception being some of the silat groundwork where you're a pretzel, but any reasonable school will take your needs into account.

I've also found enough crossover between silat and taiji that both are enhanced, although IMO taiji can take some time to become street-usable--but that depends a lot on the school.

Answer 6

Have you thought about tai chi chuan? I know that westerners tend to think about it more as yoga than martial art but that's a terminology mess to be blamed on popular culture. There are schools that are treating tai chi chuan as a martial art though you might put some effort in finding one.

It is an internal art and it will give you freedom to go at your own pace and in accordance with your own body. Though moment might come from your background in Japanese arts (at least I had some problems about moving and distance due to my history in aikido and iaido). This switch might be very useful as it broadens your perspective.

Good thing is that Tai Chi Chuan is beneficial for health (your joints will thank you in a while) as it training incorporate Chi Gong. Also, Ba Qua Chang and other Chinese arts are very close and Tai Chi Chuan is more often than not an entrance point to several arts.

Answer 7

Some interesting replies from people on here. Speaking as someone who works in the medical field and has studied martial arts most of my life I felt I had to add my part on this.

If your knees cause you problems then doing a martial art that uses a lot of leg work will exascerbate any problems and could make them worse. It might only be gradual but could easily lead to arthritis and potentially degradation of joints leading to replacements. I appreciate what people are saying about ice packs and ibuprofen but you do not want to have a reliance on these over a long time or even after each training episode. Pain does not equal gain. Capoeira requires a lot of suppleness and strength and has some incredibly acrobatic demands on the body. If you don't have a history of this then stay away. Ninjutsu and the other similar arts do not have a reliance on impact moves, in fact seem to push a relaxed body rather than the martial arts snap. Could be good but finding a good school is just so difficult. There are so many variations of this art. Tai chi is excellent and as someone mentioned. Can be extremely effective if the martial aspect is taught although it can take a long time to learn your specific form before they allow progression. However. It is a very good art and often recommended for anyone of a certain age. Aikido is a good soft art but requires a lot of kneeling If it self defence you are looking for and have a background in grappling, I would highly recommend the previous posters suggestion of wing chun. I have studied it for a long long time and have had on occasion been required to use it. It is extremely effective and the footwork will not put any stresses on any part of your legs. Another suggestion would be keysi, but again, finding a good school would be very difficult.

Hope this helps in any way possible and I wish you good luck.

Answer 8

Stylistically, I would go with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, the emphasis on the ground does keep it safer. In fact American Folkstyle Wrestling has rules that encourage more matwork to reduce the risk of injuries during takedowns, which is where most wrestling injuries occur (I can dig up a source on that if you really want, but it'll take me a fair bit of time). Kosen Judo, which is really best described as Scholastic Judo similarly has rules encouraging more time spent on the ground, likely for the same reason.

The finding a good school bit is really prevalent here though. The meathead factor will be a big problem, and I've actually spent quite some time talking to people I know who have gone to various schools to figure out which one is the safest. It has more of an emphasis on drilling techniques than on sparring, which should control the risk of unexpected injuries better. The instructor is also a locally certified group fitness instructor, which isn't mandatory for MA instructors here, but looking into whether the instructor has credentials specifically relating to teaching, and not just subject matter expertise would be a good idea.

For striking, I would lean towards boxing. The main reason being that boxing has far better protective gear than any other style. If you really want to protect your hands, there isn't really anything that comes close to Winning MS-600 gloves (and certainly nothing to protect your elbows or knees that's in that protective category, or even a few orders of magnitude down), the same goes for sparring, Winning FG-5000 headgear is about as protective as it gets, but not really appropriate for sparring that includes kicks as the facebar obscures vision. The down side is you'd end up spending near $1000 on all that stuff, but if you have the money I think it's a great investment, just like spending $150 on a custom mouthguard instead of a $40 boil and bite.

As far as important qualities for a striking art goes; learning how to hit hard, sometimes sparring near 100%, and includes punches to the head, boxing has all the basics covered. The most common striking attack you're likely to face is a punch to the head, so it's very useful to know how to slip, block, and parry it. Whether you are taught to rely too much on the gloves to act as shields would depend on the instructor. Ideally you'd find one that can teach you in multiple styles of boxing, and you can tell him that you're interested in self defense more than competition and get your advice tailored to that.

I can't think of anything that incorporates both grappling and striking, that has a low risk of injury, and is something I'd want to rely on while bouncing. To get both I think you'll have to split it up. A Jeet Kune Do school might work, although it's much harder to really predict what a JKD class might be like. Some of them go much more boxing like, while others go much more Wing Chun like, and I wouldn't be surprised if there's people using Muay Thai or Karate as their JKD base as well. You might find that you've got boxing-like JKD that lets you benefit from the great boxing protective gear that doesn't teach grappling, or you might also find a quite suitable one that teaches BJJ with a focus on safety at the same location.

I'll talk around to some of the older wrestlers that I know and see if there's a chance that Greco-Roman Wrestling is less injury prone than Freestyle Wrestling or Judo. If it is, I think it would be a good idea to do as well. I don't think there's a safer default strategy than shutting down your opponent's attacks with a strong clinch and talking them down until they decide they don't want to fight that much after all ("I'm too old to be getting into fights anymore, let's not do this, OK?"). If you end up getting hurt training though it's pretty counter productive.

Answer 9

Jonathan's answer covers a lot of good forms already, and I second the suggestions of his that I'm familiar with. I'd like to add a couple of my own suggestions.

Ninjutsu, Bunjinkan, Ninpo, and similar arts This family of arts has a number of names, but in my experience, they have a good blend of grappling, throwing, and striking, without all the acrobatics. Some schools will do weapon work, but most good ones will at least touch on a number of different weapons (not just swords, but also chain/rope weapons, staves of varying lengths, small pointy objects, and even firearms; never underestimate the usefulness of knowing how to use the "non-modern" weapons). A few schools may even teach shinobi-iri (stealth), intonjutsu (escaping and concealment), and hensojutsu (disguise and impersonation), which have a number of uses outside of the usual stereotypical situations where martial arts are applied.

Capoeira This Brazilian/African martial art is more acrobatic, but most of it comes from controlled, strength-based moves (handstands, rolls, etc), as opposed to jumping. It's not as much grappling, either, but I think it's worth mentioning due to its appeal toward older people, since it's generally practiced in a low-impact manner (I got to watch one of the local Capoeira groups, and several of the Capoeiristas were easily in their 50s). I've personally also found it intriguing, as it has many different uses, including being a martial art, a dance, and a game. If you have a group in your area, it would probably be worth checking out.

Answer 10

About your question i think the best is Wing Chun is a great art, develop by a women and does not uses force, the base is kung fu style of the crane.

I train Jeet kune do and i am heavy. And Wing Chun is a great base in martial arts.

Wing chun is a martial arts system based on realistic self defence. It is designed for combat and not a sport!

Centreline theory - Wing Chun utilises an imaginary line between yourself and your opponent (shortest distance between two points). The centreline is the most direct line to the target; intercepting,capturing and controlling this line will give the Wing Chun fighter good advantage over the attacker. Along this line are many vulnerable points to strike e.g. eyes, nose, throat, solar plexus, abdomen and groin.

Wing Chun also uses simultaneous attack and defence, making your attack also your defence and vice versa, making the system very quick to deploy it's weaponry and deal with the problem.

Force Generation - force equals mass x acceleration, so by having a good stance and structure,staying relaxed and focusing your strike, using your body mass and synchronising the joints simultaneously (pivoting, stepping etc.), you will maximise acceleration thus allowing you to be able to strike hard, no matter what your size or gender.

From: http://www.conceptsdefence.com/wing_chun.html

It's a combat art, learning how to use your body syncronized and always using the center line.

The foot work doesn't go the waist up. it's not very fancy but it is good.

Being a heavy person, for me the Wing Chun system is very good.

Answer 11

Bujinkan Budotaijutsu (popular name in the west is Ninjutsu) lets you adapt the techniques to your own body, so everyone will find a way to execute the moves taught. No high kicks are taught. The only real acrobatics is break-falling, but once mastered, that will keep you from getting injuries.

I think jujitsu will be a good suite also, as it shares allot of techniques and philosophy with Budotaijutsu.