Octagonal vs round shaped staff weapons

Question

I just had first lesson in Aikido with Jo and was suppriesed to see that some of the staffs were octagonal and some were round.

Can someone explain what is the difference and if there is any advantages to round or octagonal shape of the Jo?

Answer 1

My suggestion, based purely on experience as a wood worker, would be that octagonal staffs would traditionally have been easier to make.

The machines we have available these days can bang out nice round dowel pretty easy, but once upon a time, these things would have been make by hand using tools like planes and draw knives. Using tools like that, an octagonal shape would take half the amount of time to make.

Perhaps other traditions have grown up around the use of the different shaped staffs, but in my opinion, that would be a separate issue.

Answer 2

From my experience the octagonal weapon inflicts more pain especially when incorporating the staff in joint/finger locks and throws as the edges will hurt your bone structure more than a nice round staff.

I'd say it would likely do more damage as well, as @davenewton mentioned, because of the pointy bits - but I have not seen actual evidence of this.

Answer 3

Fascinating question; I'd like to know the answer. I found one potential answer:"The octagonal cut of all the staffs also gives you nice surface contours for locks and submissions."

Several sources (none of which are reliable enough to quote) imply that octagonal weapons are associated with Okinawan martial arts, but that seems to be in the context of the nunchuku.

I spoke with one of my favorite jo authorities (whom I didn't obtain permission to quote/name) who relayed that one of his colleagues has an octagonal jo. Apparently,

One of my friends who does SMRJ has one. Supposedly it's "Gonnosuke style" It will cut you!! He emphasis striking with the edge of the jo's tip, like using the corner of a very small table that is moving very fast...

I've found another author who suggests that the octagonal edges can cut

The hakaku-bo, however, was octagonal, and its angular edges made it viciously effective when unleashed against an unprotected target, since they cut along with the strike. Dave Lowry also a nice, readable, survey of jo training

This provides another potential alternative answer, although it involves some inference. Apparently the "Pilgrim's staff" or Kongojo is octagonal, and there may be a separate formal school of training for combat with the kongojo.

*update: Caveat: the following is personal opinion Looking back over all the answers, I'm unconvinced by the "more wood" and even of the "Gonnosuke" answers. With respect to the "Gonnosuke appellation, although I don't deny that vendors may sell octagonal jo as "Gonnosuke style", I'm skeptical that the octagonal jo is connected to the founder of Shindo Muso Ryu Jodo in any linear fashion. (Although I studied SMRJ for a very short time, my SMRJ teacher required round weapons, and I didn't find any mention of octagonal jo's in any of the SMRJ websites I visited. I would expect that if anything were "Gonosuke style", it would be SMJR).

As far as the "more wood" goes, the only way that I can imagine that making a difference is in placing more mass on target; as others have noted, I'm not sure how much "more mass" would be involved. Furthermore if the goal is to increase the mass*velocity equation, I personally would choose a denser wood rather than an octagonal shape.

I think the most credible answer I've seen is "personal preference".

However I'm eager to see any support for any of these hypothesis, or even new hypothesis.

Answer 4

Octagonal weapons are less prone to torque out of your grip; same reason bolt heads aren't round–the flat edges give the weapon a means to find purchase, against the bones and skin of the hand. Whether it's enough of an advantage to prevent disarming, different issue. the disarms we practice in my FMA classes aren't turn-the-stick-on-its-axis disarms. That said, every little bits helps, I suppose.

I hear claims that they'll do more damage because you can "hit them with the pointy part", but quite frankly, I don't see how that would be possible in a combat situation. Even if it was possible to align a strike in that fashion, I'm skeptical the practical difference would be worth the effort.