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Removed reference to Cradle after reworking of question to remove this section. Updated image references.
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brazofuerte
brazofuerte
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I do not know exactly what "cradle" or "crucifix" meanmeans to you, but will try to explain how I have seen these termsthis term used and how your examples relate.

Judo rule change

My understanding of the rule change you have illustrated is:

  1. The left position was a pin before, and is a pin now (ushiro kesa gatame).
  2. The right position was not a pin before, but is a pin now (ura gatame). The objection seems to have been that the right position is not a kesa or shiho like position because tori's back was to uke. I always thought this point was silly and I am glad this was changed; tori has no substantial improvement in position simply by turning their hips to the side.

Cradle

When I hear the term cradle, I think of wrestling, not the ura gatame shown in the IJF rule changes. In the wrestling, Tori pushes uke's head and knee together and tori clasps hands to hold these together to control uke for back exposure.

The cradle can be done on either the near or far side. The near side cradle would probably be considered a kuzure yoko shiho gatame. The far side cradle is not a judo pin because tori's back is to the mat.

Crucifix

This is not a position I have studied formally, but when I have previously heard about this, it refers to an attacking position similar to blue's position in your right image. From this position, white's arms are tied up, and blue can strike with the free hand. This is not a judo pinning position for blue, but for white.

In the jigoku jime position, the choker definitely does not have a pin (osaekomi) because they are underneath. The person being choked may have osaekomi depending on the situation. In your third picture #0, the person being choked is not in control and would not have a pin. It's possible, however, to have a ura gatame pin and be choked by the opponent in the pin, as in #2the right-hand example in your first image. The situation of one player having a pin and the other choking is also possible in kesa gatame, for example.

Mifune video called uraUra gatame demonstrated by Mifune

your exampleyour example 

Upon reconsideration, I think this is not a pin. From Article 17 - Osaekomi-waza of the IJF SORIJF SOR:

The contestant applying osaekomi must have his body on and over opponent’s body in covering it to holds opponent down underneath his body, with applying pressure onto opponent’s front upper body with his front upper body in either the kesa, the shiho or ura position.

Uke is not underneath tori.

I do not know exactly what "cradle" or "crucifix" mean to you, but will try to explain how I have seen these terms used and how your examples relate.

Judo rule change

My understanding of the rule change you have illustrated is:

  1. The left position was a pin before, and is a pin now (ushiro kesa gatame).
  2. The right position was not a pin before, but is a pin now (ura gatame). The objection seems to have been that the right position is not a kesa or shiho like position because tori's back was to uke. I always thought this point was silly and I am glad this was changed; tori has no substantial improvement in position simply by turning their hips to the side.

Cradle

When I hear the term cradle, I think of wrestling, not the ura gatame shown in the IJF rule changes. In the wrestling, Tori pushes uke's head and knee together and tori clasps hands to hold these together to control uke for back exposure.

The cradle can be done on either the near or far side. The near side cradle would probably be considered a kuzure yoko shiho gatame. The far side cradle is not a judo pin because tori's back is to the mat.

Crucifix

This is not a position I have studied formally, but when I have previously heard about this, it refers to an attacking position similar to blue's position in your right image. From this position, white's arms are tied up, and blue can strike with the free hand. This is not a judo pinning position for blue, but for white.

In the jigoku jime position, the choker definitely does not have a pin (osaekomi) because they are underneath. The person being choked may have osaekomi depending on the situation. In your picture #0, the person being choked is not in control and would not have a pin. It's possible, however, to have a ura gatame pin and be choked by the opponent in the pin, as in #2 right. The situation of one player having a pin and the other choking is also possible in kesa gatame, for example.

Mifune video called ura gatame

your example Upon reconsideration, I think this is not a pin. From Article 17 - Osaekomi-waza of the IJF SOR:

The contestant applying osaekomi must have his body on and over opponent’s body in covering it to holds opponent down underneath his body, with applying pressure onto opponent’s front upper body with his front upper body in either the kesa, the shiho or ura position.

Uke is not underneath tori.

I do not know exactly what "crucifix" means to you, but will try to explain how I have seen this term used and how your examples relate.

Judo rule change

My understanding of the rule change you have illustrated is:

  1. The left position was a pin before, and is a pin now (ushiro kesa gatame).
  2. The right position was not a pin before, but is a pin now (ura gatame). The objection seems to have been that the right position is not a kesa or shiho like position because tori's back was to uke. I always thought this point was silly and I am glad this was changed; tori has no substantial improvement in position simply by turning their hips to the side.

Crucifix

This is not a position I have studied formally, but when I have previously heard about this, it refers to an attacking position similar to blue's position in your right image. From this position, white's arms are tied up, and blue can strike with the free hand. This is not a judo pinning position for blue, but for white.

In the jigoku jime position, the choker definitely does not have a pin (osaekomi) because they are underneath. The person being choked may have osaekomi depending on the situation. In your third picture, the person being choked is not in control and would not have a pin. It's possible, however, to have a ura gatame pin and be choked by the opponent in the pin, as in the right-hand example in your first image. The situation of one player having a pin and the other choking is also possible in kesa gatame, for example.

Ura gatame demonstrated by Mifune

your example 

Upon reconsideration, I think this is not a pin. From Article 17 - Osaekomi-waza of the IJF SOR:

The contestant applying osaekomi must have his body on and over opponent’s body in covering it to holds opponent down underneath his body, with applying pressure onto opponent’s front upper body with his front upper body in either the kesa, the shiho or ura position.

Uke is not underneath tori.

deleted 2 characters in body
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mattm ♦
mattm ♦
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I do not know exactly what "cradle" or "crucifix" mean to you, but will try to explain how I have seen these terms used and how your examples relate.

Judo rule change

My understanding of the rule change you have illustrated is:

  1. The left position was a pin before, and is a pin now (ushiro kesa gatame).
  2. The right position was not a pin before, but is a pin now (ura gatame). The objection seems to have been that the right position is not a kesa or shiho like position because tori's back was to uke. I always thought this point was silly and I am glad this was changed; tori has no substantial improvement in position simply by turning their hips to the side.

Cradle

When I hear the term cradle, I think of wrestling, not the ura gatame shown in the IJF rule changes. In the wrestling, Tori pushes uke's head and knee together and tori clasps hands to hold these together to control uke for back exposure.

The cradle can be done on either the near or far side. The near side cradle would probably be considered a kuzure yoko shiho gatame. The far side cradle is not a judo pin because tori's back is to the mat.

Crucifix

This is not a position I have studied formally, but when I have previously heard about this, it refers to an attacking position similar to blue's position in your right image. From this position, white's arms are tied up, and blue can strike with the free hand. This is not a judo pinning position for blue, but for white.

In the jigoku jime position, the choker definitely does not have a pin (osaekomi) because they are underneath. The person being choked may have osaekomi depending on the situation. In your picture #0, the person being choked is not in control and would not have a pin. It's possible, however, to have a ura gatame pin and be choked by the opponent in the pin, as in #2 right. The situation of one player having a pin and the other choking is also possible in kesa gatame, for example.

Mifune video called ura gatame

your example Upon reconsideration, I think this is not a pin. From Article 17 - Osaekomi-waza of the IJF SOR:

The contestant applying osaekomi must have his body on and over opponent’s body in covering it to holds opponent down underneath his body, with applying pressure onto opponent’s front upper body with his front upper body in either the kesa, the shiho or ura position.

Uke'sUke is not underneath tori.

I do not know exactly what "cradle" or "crucifix" mean to you, but will try to explain how I have seen these terms used and how your examples relate.

Judo rule change

My understanding of the rule change you have illustrated is:

  1. The left position was a pin before, and is a pin now (ushiro kesa gatame).
  2. The right position was not a pin before, but is a pin now (ura gatame). The objection seems to have been that the right position is not a kesa or shiho like position because tori's back was to uke. I always thought this point was silly and I am glad this was changed; tori has no substantial improvement in position simply by turning their hips to the side.

Cradle

When I hear the term cradle, I think of wrestling, not the ura gatame shown in the IJF rule changes. In the wrestling, Tori pushes uke's head and knee together and tori clasps hands to hold these together to control uke for back exposure.

The cradle can be done on either the near or far side. The near side cradle would probably be considered a kuzure yoko shiho gatame. The far side cradle is not a judo pin because tori's back is to the mat.

Crucifix

This is not a position I have studied formally, but when I have previously heard about this, it refers to an attacking position similar to blue's position in your right image. From this position, white's arms are tied up, and blue can strike with the free hand. This is not a judo pinning position for blue, but for white.

In the jigoku jime position, the choker definitely does not have a pin (osaekomi) because they are underneath. The person being choked may have osaekomi depending on the situation. In your picture #0, the person being choked is not in control and would not have a pin. It's possible, however, to have a ura gatame pin and be choked by the opponent in the pin, as in #2 right. The situation of one player having a pin and the other choking is also possible in kesa gatame, for example.

Mifune video called ura gatame

your example Upon reconsideration, I think this is not a pin. From Article 17 - Osaekomi-waza of the IJF SOR:

The contestant applying osaekomi must have his body on and over opponent’s body in covering it to holds opponent down underneath his body, with applying pressure onto opponent’s front upper body with his front upper body in either the kesa, the shiho or ura position.

Uke's is not underneath tori.

I do not know exactly what "cradle" or "crucifix" mean to you, but will try to explain how I have seen these terms used and how your examples relate.

Judo rule change

My understanding of the rule change you have illustrated is:

  1. The left position was a pin before, and is a pin now (ushiro kesa gatame).
  2. The right position was not a pin before, but is a pin now (ura gatame). The objection seems to have been that the right position is not a kesa or shiho like position because tori's back was to uke. I always thought this point was silly and I am glad this was changed; tori has no substantial improvement in position simply by turning their hips to the side.

Cradle

When I hear the term cradle, I think of wrestling, not the ura gatame shown in the IJF rule changes. In the wrestling, Tori pushes uke's head and knee together and tori clasps hands to hold these together to control uke for back exposure.

The cradle can be done on either the near or far side. The near side cradle would probably be considered a kuzure yoko shiho gatame. The far side cradle is not a judo pin because tori's back is to the mat.

Crucifix

This is not a position I have studied formally, but when I have previously heard about this, it refers to an attacking position similar to blue's position in your right image. From this position, white's arms are tied up, and blue can strike with the free hand. This is not a judo pinning position for blue, but for white.

In the jigoku jime position, the choker definitely does not have a pin (osaekomi) because they are underneath. The person being choked may have osaekomi depending on the situation. In your picture #0, the person being choked is not in control and would not have a pin. It's possible, however, to have a ura gatame pin and be choked by the opponent in the pin, as in #2 right. The situation of one player having a pin and the other choking is also possible in kesa gatame, for example.

Mifune video called ura gatame

your example Upon reconsideration, I think this is not a pin. From Article 17 - Osaekomi-waza of the IJF SOR:

The contestant applying osaekomi must have his body on and over opponent’s body in covering it to holds opponent down underneath his body, with applying pressure onto opponent’s front upper body with his front upper body in either the kesa, the shiho or ura position.

Uke is not underneath tori.

include jigoku jime in answer, revise answer based on current wording of rules
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mattm ♦
mattm ♦
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I do not know exactly what "cradle" or "crucifix" mean to you, but will try to explain how I have seen these terms used and how your examples relate.

Judo rule change

My understanding of the rule change you have illustrated is:

  1. The left position was a pin before, and is a pin now (ushiro kesa gatame).
  2. The right position was not a pin before, but is a pin now (ura gatame). The objection seems to have been that the right position is not a kesa or shiho like position because tori's back was to uke. I always thought this point was silly and I am glad this was changed; tori has no substantial improvement in position simply by turning their hips to the side.

Cradle

When I hear the term cradle, I think of wrestling, not the ura gatame shown in the IJF rule changes. In the wrestling, Tori pushes uke's head and knee together and tori clasps hands to hold these together to control uke for back exposure.

The cradle can be done on either the near or far side. The near side cradle would probably be considered a kuzure yoko shiho gatame. The far side cradle is not a judo pin because tori's back is to the mat.

Crucifix

This is not a position I have studied formally, but when I have previously heard about this, it refers to an attacking position similar to blue's position in your right image. From this position, white's arms are tied up, and blue can strike with the free hand. This is not a judo pinning position for blue, but for white.

In the jigoku jime position, the choker definitely does not have a pin (osaekomi) because they are underneath. The person being choked may have osaekomi depending on the situation. In your picture #0, the person being choked is not in control and would not have a pin. It's possible, however, to have a ura gatame pin and be choked by the opponent in the pin, as in #2 right. The situation of one player having a pin and the other choking is also possible in kesa gatame, for example.

Mifune video called ura gatame

your example Upon reconsideration, I would callthink this is not a competition judo pin. From Article 17 Tori has control- Osaekomi-waza of the IJF SOR:

The contestant applying osaekomi must have his body on and over opponent’s body in covering it to holds opponent down underneath his body, with applying pressure onto opponent’s front upper body with his front upper body in either the kesa, the shiho or ura position.

ukeUke's with shoulder exposure and is in a nominal shiho-like position, andnot underneath tori would be expected to be able to separate if they desired (no leg control by uke). I, however, am not a referee of consequence, and I might expect to be overruled.

I do not know exactly what "cradle" or "crucifix" mean to you, but will try to explain how I have seen these terms used and how your examples relate.

Judo rule change

My understanding of the rule change you have illustrated is:

  1. The left position was a pin before, and is a pin now (ushiro kesa gatame).
  2. The right position was not a pin before, but is a pin now (ura gatame). The objection seems to have been that the right position is not a kesa or shiho like position because tori's back was to uke. I always thought this point was silly and I am glad this was changed; tori has no substantial improvement in position simply by turning their hips to the side.

Cradle

When I hear the term cradle, I think of wrestling, not the ura gatame shown in the IJF rule changes. In the wrestling, Tori pushes uke's head and knee together and tori clasps hands to hold these together to control uke for back exposure.

The cradle can be done on either the near or far side. The near side cradle would probably be considered a kuzure yoko shiho gatame. The far side cradle is not a judo pin because tori's back is to the mat.

Crucifix

This is not a position I have studied formally, but when I have previously heard about this, it refers to an attacking position similar to blue's position in your right image. From this position, white's arms are tied up, and blue can strike with the free hand. This is not a judo pinning position for blue, but for white.

Mifune video called ura gatame

your example I would call this a competition judo pin. Tori has control of uke with shoulder exposure and is in a nominal shiho-like position, and tori would be expected to be able to separate if they desired (no leg control by uke). I, however, am not a referee of consequence, and I might expect to be overruled.

I do not know exactly what "cradle" or "crucifix" mean to you, but will try to explain how I have seen these terms used and how your examples relate.

Judo rule change

My understanding of the rule change you have illustrated is:

  1. The left position was a pin before, and is a pin now (ushiro kesa gatame).
  2. The right position was not a pin before, but is a pin now (ura gatame). The objection seems to have been that the right position is not a kesa or shiho like position because tori's back was to uke. I always thought this point was silly and I am glad this was changed; tori has no substantial improvement in position simply by turning their hips to the side.

Cradle

When I hear the term cradle, I think of wrestling, not the ura gatame shown in the IJF rule changes. In the wrestling, Tori pushes uke's head and knee together and tori clasps hands to hold these together to control uke for back exposure.

The cradle can be done on either the near or far side. The near side cradle would probably be considered a kuzure yoko shiho gatame. The far side cradle is not a judo pin because tori's back is to the mat.

Crucifix

This is not a position I have studied formally, but when I have previously heard about this, it refers to an attacking position similar to blue's position in your right image. From this position, white's arms are tied up, and blue can strike with the free hand. This is not a judo pinning position for blue, but for white.

In the jigoku jime position, the choker definitely does not have a pin (osaekomi) because they are underneath. The person being choked may have osaekomi depending on the situation. In your picture #0, the person being choked is not in control and would not have a pin. It's possible, however, to have a ura gatame pin and be choked by the opponent in the pin, as in #2 right. The situation of one player having a pin and the other choking is also possible in kesa gatame, for example.

Mifune video called ura gatame

your example Upon reconsideration, I think this is not a pin. From Article 17 - Osaekomi-waza of the IJF SOR:

The contestant applying osaekomi must have his body on and over opponent’s body in covering it to holds opponent down underneath his body, with applying pressure onto opponent’s front upper body with his front upper body in either the kesa, the shiho or ura position.

Uke's is not underneath tori.

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mattm ♦
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