Unarmed defender disarming an opponent with a straight sword?

Question

Akido has a well known technique of "sword-taking" (太刀取り, tachitori), where an unarmed defender disarms an attacker with a katana. This technique surely has utility against an incompetent swordsman, incompetent in the sense of telegraphing the strike by raising the arms before making a downward cut that is easily sidestepped.

But I've never heard of such a technique in regard to an opponent with straight sword.

• Do any techniques exist for an unarmed defender disarming an opponent with a straight sword, and if not, why?

I'm especially interested in what western fencers have to say on the subject, since they're the most specialized at point-fighting.

Answer 1

I’ll be honest here, if the person with a sword, any sword, is competent, and the other person is completely unarmed and armored, then disarming them would essentially be a freak accident.

The issue is that, unlike blunt weapons, swords are very dangerous basically all the way down the blade. Now if someone is incompetent, and thus telegraphing and over-committing to strikes, sure you have a chance to disarm them. That won’t be the case with any experienced swordsman though.

It all comes down to this, your options are stay away, get your own weapon, or cheat (throw rocks, throw sand in their eyes, get 30 other people and dog pile on them, etc).

Remember everyone, never play with pointy things without expert supervision.

Answer 2

Since this question hasn't yet generated an answer, here's my guess:

There has been much discussion on the deficiencies of disarming technique against even an unskilled knife wielder, and swords are exponentially more dangerous, both for their range and versatility.

• Slapping away the attackers blade is the only defense I know of that has been proposed, and that was still considered dangerous even with a leather glove.

_{[See also: The History of the Rapier (2013) p.15].}

Pure thrusting swords, such as late rapiers and poniards are so light and quick, a slap is unlikely to make contact. The blade can be thrust and withdrawn in a fraction of a second, the "sewing machine" technique can be utilized, and fencers can change the angle of attack, thrusting from almost any angle.

• The torso (typically abdomen to avoid bones) is a prime target, but a fencer can also stab at the face, legs, and even the arms, making defending one area of the body insufficient.

Cut and thrust blades, such as early rapiers, basket hilt claymores, and chinese jian, can additionally cut into a slap, which would be grievous, due to the amount of momentum that can be generated in a very short distance, and microscopic surface area in which the force is concentrated on contact.

Additionally, good fencers can put the point of rotation pretty much anywhere along the blade, such that even cut and thrust swords have a high probability of avoiding a slap.

• An expert knife fighter can kill with single thrust, but a merely competent fencer, if uncertain of those specific targets, can impale.

Generally, impaling is contraindicated as it can cause the fencer to lose control fo the blade, but in a one-on-one match, this is acceptable. Regardless, any puncture wound received from a sword anywhere on the body is likely to be non-trivial.

Post-medieval cut and thrust swords used for fencing are also quite capable of executing a "sewing machine technique".

• Advancing obliquely, as seen in in katana disarming techniques won't work, as fencers are quite capable of circling

Here the intent to to maximize the target area of the opponent's torso. While western sport fencing is entirely linear, free form fencing does not have such restrictions—in Chinese fencing, circling and changing direction is common.

Thus

• There is no way for an unarmed defender to disarm a competent fencer

The only strategy is to stay out of range.

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[You can test whether this seems correct by simply by facing a fencer holding even an unwieldy wooden practice sword with a point, and evaluating whether that's a bet you want to take—here I don't even mean that the wooden sword is lethal, just that the amount of force which will be concentrated into a point is, in an of itself, strongly disincentivizing, and still quite dangerous.]

Answer 3

Now that I've sparred outside my school:

• Most people holding a straight sword can be disarmed with empty hand striking or grappling b/c there are very few competent people in this weapon from the perspective of sparring.

https://www.quora.com/Can-a-skilled-martial-artist-disarm-someone-with-a-sword/answer/Tom-Musgrove

https://www.quora.com/Can-a-skilled-martial-artist-disarm-someone-with-a-sword/answer/Alex-Deva

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Most people will try to attack with cuts

This is always a losing strategy unless it's a beat cut or a feint—otherwise you just get stabbed. And yet, nearly all of the straight sword videos you see today are focused on cutting—you see little to no point work.

To get to me, you have to come through my point, and there are definitely people out there advocating sharp swords and teaching, who lack deep or even sufficient understanding of the issue.

FIE foil is dismissed as a martial art, but in my experience, anyone with sufficient foil fencing experience is deadly with a straight sword, even if the weight is heavier than they expected, because they know how to use the weapons, and thrusting is instinctual.

People who cut mats or bamboo seem to have to prepare for the cut

Practitioners who have trained sufficiently cut without thinking, and you'll notice there is no telegraphing or extra movement. There may be some arm motion, and some waist motion, but with straight sword it's "all wrists"

Most who practice don't train their wrists sufficiently for either flexibility or strength. If you see people cheating their grips, or doing fancy grips, that's the reason.

People draw back the sword to get more power into cuts

This is instant death against a straight sword, and allows any serious martial artist with some fighting experience to get inside the cut. Serious strikers or grapplers who train and have some fighting experience can win.

https://youtu.be/UE6w3iKRY8g?t=231

Most practitioners cannot get power into a cut without very big motions. If they are not menacing you with the point, you can probably get inside and win.

Most people require followthrough to make cuts—if they miss, you can win

Real japanese swordsmen and wudang swordsmen and swordswomen can snap their cuts, and do not require followthrough. When these practitioners cleave, it is because they choose to cleave, not because it is their only option.

https://youtu.be/j0c_1XKJUSQ?t=3

Most people who practice sword aren't grapplers—grapplers will win by default if they can get inside

If you've train hard and they haven't, they're probably not prepared for a real fight.

If their on guard looks weak or tentative in any way, you can probably grab their blade

Your palms and fingers may well get cut, especially if their natural reaction is to draw it out of your grip, but it's better than getting impaled. Truth is, if you were able to grab it in the first place, they are not competent.

Slapping the blade away by the flat and putting them on the ground is probably optimal

Those that actually know wudang sword always counter with the flat against the flat—that why Chinese jian don't taper. Your slap here is Musashi's "anything can be a sword"

Stick wins against sword if the stick wielder is more competent

If you train hard in Wing Chun or Karate or any serous striking art, and you can grab a stick, you can definitely do this to any paper tiger:

https://youtu.be/UE6w3iKRY8g?t=252

And you don't technically even need that windup—using hsingyi with a stick you can generate that power from a guard position in conjunction with a spring forward.

Put their blade off line, dominate the space, and end them

There are many people with sharp swords in 2021, but very few competent swordsmen.

It's like any other art—it really comes down to how hard you train. If they don't look like they train hard, even if they "spar", they're probably not dangerous.